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- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 20:04:38 PST
- From: Info-Hams Mailing List and Newsgroup <info-hams@ucsd.edu>
- Errors-To: Info-Hams-Errors@UCSD.Edu
- Reply-To: Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu
- Precedence: Bulk
- Subject: Info-Hams Digest V93 #1492
- To: Info-Hams
-
-
- Info-Hams Digest Tue, 21 Dec 93 Volume 93 : Issue 1492
-
- Today's Topics:
- "Young" Enthusiast here
- * Need help with interference problem! *
- Designations for microwave bands?
- Don't try this at home
- FTP Sites, BBS
- Ham ticket (3 msgs)
- heathkit support?
- HELP with KLM Beam ???
- Mod for Icom IC449A needed
- Morse Code blues
- need comments on MFJ antennas and accessories (2 msgs)
- Order Pizza by Internet
-
- Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu>
- Send subscription requests to: <Info-Hams-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>
- Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
-
- Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available
- (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".
-
- We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
- herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
- policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 22:38:19 GMT
- From: newshub.nosc.mil!crash!news.sprintlink.net!direct!indirect.com!aardvark@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: "Young" Enthusiast here
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Don't worry, there are some young enthusiasts out here...I just passed,
- and I'm 15 years old. I'm a nocode right now, but I'm upgrading this
- summer...hopefully to an advanced or extra.
-
-
- --Aardvark
- --aardvark@indirect.com
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 20 Dec 93 16:31:49 EST
- From: library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.ans.net!malgudi.oar.net!ucbeh!armogicl@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: * Need help with interference problem! *
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Howdy! I was referred to this newsgroup because of the nature of my problem:
-
- Does anyone know of a way to remedy this problem? When I turn on my
- guitar amp, I get radio interference coming out of it (I can make out the songs
- perfectly - quite annoying and embarrasing!!) So, is there a way to "filter"
- this garbage out? Also, the interference intensifies as the reverb is turned
- up.
-
- ANY help would be appreciated!
-
-
- --
- -Chris
- -------------------------
- armogicl@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
- cla@iti-oh.com
- -------------------------
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 21 Dec 93 22:11:13 GMT
- From: ogicse!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvsnz!tomb@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Designations for microwave bands?
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Bruce Toback (btoback@netcom.com) wrote:
- : I've looked everywhere but in the right place, and I can't find a list of
- : the alphabetic designations for microwave bands and the frequencies they
- : represent (e.g., Ku-band, C-band, etc.).
-
- : Can anyone tell me where I can find such a list? I've been able to get
-
- Sams' "Reference Data for Engineers" has such a list in the seventh edition
- on pg 1-4. For example, X band is 5.20GHz to 10.90GHz, K band is
- 10.9 to 36 (with Ku at 17.25). A footnote says C band includes Sz through
- Xy, or 3.90 to 6.20GHz.
-
- (This book has, IMHO, a _lot_ of pretty accessible information, though I've
- found the filters section to have become somewhat more cryptic in the current
- edition than in previous editions. Previously it was called "Reference Data
- for Radio Engineers," and still has a fairly strong "radio" flavor.)
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 22 Dec 93 01:00:11 GMT
- From: ogicse!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!freenet.scri.fsu.edu!twright@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Don't try this at home
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) writes:
- > In article <CIE334.7HM@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> djadams@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (david jerome adams) writes:
- > >
- > >Greetings! Let's just imagine that you are tooling around on 80m one
- > >evening and come across a very faint signal which sounds like it just ended
- > >a cq call with /qrp. Let's just suppose that you are seized with the desire
- > >to work this station, so you through on your phones (stereo so all sound goes
- > >through one ear piece only) and you turn the af and rf gain all the way up
- > >so that you can hear the signal better....now, just as you are straining to
- > >the utmost to make out the final letter in the call, let's just say your wife
- > >is in the kitchen and decides to make some cookies....and, as a result, turns
- > >on the hand mixer...
- > >
- > >When you regain consciousness, you'll have to mention to your dear xyl that
- > >the noise level coming out of that thing takes the needle off the scale...
- > >OW.....
- >
- > Back in the old days, this used to be a problem for me too. So let
- > me pass on a tip. Wire back to back diodes across the headphones.
- > For the older 2,000 ohm phones single diodes worked well, for the
- > newer low impedance phones you may want to try low threshold germanium
- > diodes. The idea is to make a limiter that normally doesn't
- > conduct, but when a sudden loud noise comes along it will clamp
- > the signal to a tolerable level.
- >
- > This also has another side effect that you may or may not like. When
- > you transmit, the diodes act as an untuned crystal set. For my old
- > AM rig, I could monitor my transmissions nicely. With Morse, you'd
- > get the click clack of a telegraph sounder. Donald Duck would still
- > sound like Donald Duck.
- >
- > Gary
- > --
- > Gary Coffman KE4ZV | I kill you, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
- > Destructive Testing Systems | You kill me, | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
- > 534 Shannon Way | We're the Manson Family | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary
- > Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | -sorry Barney |
- My cure to this problem a few years ago was to take the mixer away
- from the wife. This still works great today. HI HI!!
-
- Merry Christmas to everyone of us.
-
- Tim KD4OVM
- --
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 23:16:05 GMT
- From: news@lanl.gov
- Subject: FTP Sites, BBS
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- This has probably been asked a million jillion times, but:
-
- Is there a list of FTP sites and BBS's which archive
- radio related items such as software, modifications,
- homebrew designs etc. ?
-
- =======================================================================
- David R. Wolf wolf@lanl.gov LANL, MS P940, 87545 (505) 667-3813
- =======================================================================
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 21 Dec 93 20:45:30 GMT
- From: ogicse!news.tek.com!gvgpsa.gvg.tek.com!gold.gvg.tek.com!gvgadg.gvg.tek.com!groverc@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Ham ticket
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- In article <9312172309.A8344wk@hofbbs.com>, <artie.uberti@hofbbs.com> writes:
- >
- > DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW IF FCC HAS STOPPED PROCESSING LICENSES. I AM
- STILL
- > WAITING SINCE 11/9/93 FOR MY TICKET TO ARRIVE AND I AM GROWING IMPATIENT.
- > ALL REPLIES WELCOME!!!
- > 73
-
- Patience, patience my son. It shall surely soon be revealed unto you.
-
- If you were good, maybe in time for Christmas.
-
- 73
-
- Grover
-
- WT6P
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 21 Dec 1993 18:53:21 GMT
- From: noc.near.net!transfer.stratus.com!sw.stratus.com!fms@uunet.uu.net
- Subject: Ham ticket
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- In article <9312172309.A8344wk@hofbbs.com>, artie.uberti@hofbbs.com writes:
- >
- > DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW IF FCC HAS STOPPED PROCESSING LICENSES. I AM STILL
- > WAITING SINCE 11/9/93 FOR MY TICKET TO ARRIVE AND I AM GROWING IMPATIENT.
- > ALL REPLIES WELCOME!!!
- > 73
- >
-
- Given that it's been only 6 weeks since you took your exam, I'd say kick
- back, relax, and stop pestering your mailman! :-) We generally tell folks that
- the wait is about 8-10 weeks (though it might be less, if the FCC is feeling
- fairly efficient -- don't count on it, though). Given that Thanksgiving
- happened between now and then, and given the upcoming Christmas holidays, I'd
- say it's going to be closer to 10. Also, don't bother calling the FCC until 90
- days have passed -- they'll only tell you to wait until 90 days have passed.
- And they can't tell you anything about your application unless they've actually
- processed it -- which only happens about 3 days before you receive it in the mail.
-
- BTW, I am assuming that the 11/9/93 you mention is November 9th, not September 11th.
- If it's actually supposed to be September, then call your VE team, ask which
- VEC they sent your forms to, and call that VEC immediately! If it's November,
- then relax, you've still got a few weeks to wait. Yup, I know it's tough --
- I think my mailman is still a bit traumatized from when I was waiting for mine,
- and that was 2-1/2 years ago! :-)
-
-
- 73 de Faith N1JIT
- --
- Faith M. Senie InterNet: fms@vos.stratus.com
- Stratus Computer, Inc. InterNet: fms@hoop.sw.stratus.com
- 55 Fairbanks Blvd. Pkt Radio: n1jit@wa1phy.ma.usa.na
- Marlboro, MA 01752 Phone: (508)460-2632
-
- Curiosity doesn't flourish among the burned-out...
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 18:46:37 GMT
- From: netcomsv!netcom.com!n1ist@decwrl.dec.com
- Subject: Ham ticket
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- In article <9312172309.A8344wk@hofbbs.com> artie.uberti@hofbbs.com writes:
- -DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW IF FCC HAS STOPPED PROCESSING LICENSES. I AM STILL
- -WAITING SINCE 11/9/93 FOR MY TICKET TO ARRIVE AND I AM GROWING IMPATIENT.
-
- Unfortunately, processing a new license has been taking 8-10 weeks. Please be
- patient.
- /mike
-
- (BTW, try lower case. No need to shout :-)
-
-
-
-
- --
- \|/ Michael L. Ardai N1IST Teradyne ATG Boston
- --- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- /|\ ardai@maven.dnet.teradyne.com n1ist@netcom.com
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 04:54:30 GMT
- From: sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!keith@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: heathkit support?
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Is there any source available for finding parts replacements for Heathkip
- products? Has anyone picked up customer support for old heathkits?
-
- John Keith
- keith@fc.hp.com
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 17:09:41 GMT
- From: news.service.uci.edu!usc.edu!wupost!udel!darwin.sura.net!fconvx.ncifcrf.gov!mack@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: HELP with KLM Beam ???
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- In article <2f5u5d$iku@sousa.ako.dec.com> segrest@bobseg.enet.dec.com () writes:
- >I have is a KLM 440-10X
- >beam.
- >I don't know how to hook the coax up to this beast.
- >
- It sounds like you have a KLM with the two element log-periodic feed. These
- are supposed to (and may actually have) a wider bandwidth than a regular
- yagi feed. I have several of these at 2m. The feed point is 200ohms balanced.
- It sounds like you are missing the balun. No problem. You need a connector
- mounted to the boom (electrically) via a thick strap (say 1/8" Al sheet), bent
- to fit the boom (recommend N connector). You need 1/2wavelngth of coax (any
- impedance - suggest RG-141, it's the hard copper outer teflon diellectric
- coax - it's 0.141" in diam - you can solder the outsdie of the coax). Drill
- two of the holes in the coax connector out to fit the coax (need a plated
- brass N connector for this). FOrm the coax into a hair pin and solder the
- ends of the coax into the connector. Join the center pin of the connector
- to the center conductor of one side of the hairpin. tThe balnun output
- - the two ends of the center conductor of the coax hairpin - is 200 ohms
- balanced. Join these to your feed point.
- Give me a call if you have trouble
- Joe
- NA3T
- mack@ncifcrf.gov
- (301)-402-4573 (w)
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 05:06:43 GMT
- From: netcomsv!netcom.com!n1ist@decwrl.dec.com
- Subject: Mod for Icom IC449A needed
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Greetings. I recently picked up an Icom IC449A 440 MHz mobile rig, and
- have found out that you need to perform the 'Out of band xmit' mod in
- order to transmit in the 430-440 MHz portion of the Ham band. Unfortunately,
- Icom refuses to give any info on this mod, since it would also let you
- transmit outside the Ham band. The mod listed in the Pink Artsci book
- (or in the schematic supplied with the radio) doesn't match the actual
- PCB, and doesn't work. In my radio, only diode D5 is loaded. This setup
- is identical to that of the IC229H, but that mod (clip D5, add a solder
- bridge accros two pads) doesn't work. Any ideas? The serial number is
- 0171X if that makes a difference. Thanks.
- /mike
-
-
- --
- \|/ Michael L. Ardai N1IST Teradyne ATG Boston
- --- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- /|\ ardai@maven.dnet.teradyne.com n1ist@netcom.com
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 21 Dec 93 10:50:23 GMT
- From: ogicse!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!cbr600@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Morse Code blues
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Hello all. Just had my first bad experience as a Tech plus licensee. Went up
- to KSUARC's club shack to see if 10M was open...it wasn't (or if it was, noone
- was listening), so I decided to practice a little bit of code live. Dropped down
- to 15 meters, threw out the following:
-
- CQ CQ CQ DE N0YAX N0YAX N0YAX QRS K
-
- I put the QRS in there so hams would know I had trouble copying code, and would
- send slower. I did that about 3 times, and this guy comes back at about 18 wpm
- all I could catch was N0YAX DE and from there lost it totally. I kept on trying
- to copy it, but finally got so frustrated that I just said forget it and left.
- What's the use of getting on the code bands if noone is going to send slow enough
- to copy it? I need lots of spacing, because I'm so new to morse I need time to
- hear the character and recognize it...It doesn't come automatically yet.
-
- I thought the Novice code bands were so people could build up their code skills
- by actually using it. How are we supposed to do that if no one will drop their
- code down to our level? Come on guys, help out us new ppl struggling with the
- code!
-
- 73's everyone.
-
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Jeremy L. Utley | jlu@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu
- Computing & Infomation Sciences | cbr600@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
- Student | cbr600@ksuvm.bitnet
- Kansas State University | bxth85a (Prodigy)
- A.S. Comp. Sci. & Acctg. | N0YAX@N0OER.#NEKS.KS.USA.NA (Packet Radio)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 21 Dec 93 13:43:37 GMT
- From: ogicse!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: need comments on MFJ antennas and accessories
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- I need a 2m mobile antenna and like to get comments about the MFJ
- 5/8 wave magnet mount antenna MFJ-1728B ($25).
-
- Also, is the MFJ J Pocket Rollup antenna any good ($15)?
-
- how about telescopic antennas for HT (MFJ-1714, $17) ? how does this
- compare to the AEA hot rod ($25) ?
-
- are the MFJ speaker mikes for HTs good ?
-
- please email replies if possible.
- thanks in advance.
-
- happy holidays
-
- jerry
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 21 Dec 93 13:53:12 GMT
- From: ogicse!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: need comments on MFJ antennas and accessories
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- I need a 2m mobile antenna and like to get comments about the MFJ
- 5/8 wave magnet mount antenna MFJ-1728B ($25).
-
- Also, is the MFJ J Pocket Rollup antenna any good ($15)?
-
- how about telescopic antennas for HT (MFJ-1714, $17) ? how does this
- compare to the AEA hot rod ($25) ?
-
- are the MFJ speaker mikes for HTs good ?
-
- please email replies if possible.
- thanks in advance.
-
- happy holidays
-
- jerry
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 06:09:52 GMT
- From: netcomsv!netcom.com!jfh@decwrl.dec.com
- Subject: Order Pizza by Internet
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- randy@cyphyn.radnet.com (Randy) wrote:
-
- >The guy who maintains the Hams on Internet FAQ? I tried 3 times to Email
- >him to say thanks..he's doing a good job... and each time
- >
- >CAN'T MAIL! MAIL RETURNED! ... I had to give up on the guy!
- >
- >So, either we gobble up bandwidth by posting, or ignor all the Ham packets.
-
- Hmm. I've sent him mail, and he's gotten it. Perhaps there was something
- else wrong somewhere. That's a problem with Internet mail - there are so
- many possible points of failure.
-
- --
-
- ----------------------------------------------------
- Jack Hamilton POB 281107 SF CA 94128 USA
- jfh@netcom.com kd6ttl@w6pw.#nocal.ca.us.na
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 11:48:49 -0700
- From: orca.es.com!cnn.sim.es.com!msanders.sim.es.com!user@uunet.uu.net
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- References <SDS.93Dec17000051@cslab9f.cs.brown.edu>, <1993Dec20.164130.9865@n5ial.mythical.com>, <CIEC97.F6x@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>ser
- Subject : Re: Where are all the young enthusiasts?
-
- In article <CIEC97.F6x@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, warnergt@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
- (george.t.warner) wrote:
-
- >
- > >Where are all the young enthusiasts?
- >
- > They are waiting for the obsolete code requirements to be eliminated.
-
- --
-
- George:
-
- I disagree: I know five young hams in my area (under the age of 17) who
- are studying code, and two who have been making CW contacts on the novice
- bands and are nearly ready to get their general licenses at 13 WPM. I also
- just upgraded to general, and worked hard to meet the code requirements.
-
- Milt
- =========================================================================
-
- Opinions, thoughts, &cetera are my own (when I can remember them).
-
- "He flies the sky KB7MSF
- Like an Eagle in the eye UTAH
- of a hurricane that's abandoned."
-
- America
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 21 Dec 93 21:49:36 GMT
- From: ogicse!cs.uoregon.edu!sgiblab!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ginews!don@network.ucsd.edu
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- References <1993Dec20.164130.9865@n5ial.mythical.com>, <CIEC97.F6x@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, <msanders-211293114849@msanders.sim.es.com>
- Subject : Re: Where are all the young enthusiasts?
-
- In article <msanders-211293114849@msanders.sim.es.com> msanders@sim.es.com (Milt Sanders) writes:
- >In article <CIEC97.F6x@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, warnergt@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
- >(george.t.warner) wrote:
- >>
- >> >Where are all the young enthusiasts?
- >>
- >> They are waiting for the obsolete code requirements to be eliminated.
- >
- >I disagree: I know five young hams in my area (under the age of 17) who
- >are studying code, and two who have been making CW contacts on the novice
- >bands and are nearly ready to get their general licenses at 13 WPM. I also
- >just upgraded to general, and worked hard to meet the code requirements.
- >
- I also disagree: My son, now 15 has had a General Class license for
- almost a year now, and had a Novice before than, and started with
- the codeless Technician license. His favorite pasttime is CW
- contesting!
-
- Donald D. Woelz, K9GR Office Phone: 414-644-8700
- GENROCO, Inc. K9GR @WB9TYT.#MKE.WI.USA.NOAM
- 205 Kettle Moraine Drive North k9gr@k9gr.ampr.org [44.92.1.48]
- Slinger, WI 53086 U.S.A. don@genroco.com
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 04:46:31 GMT
- From: netcomsv!netcom.com!n1ist@decwrl.dec.com
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- References <2er4on$f1b@wuecl.wustl.edu>, <CI6MLC.Iqo@world.std.com>, <2esi38$h6k@crchh941.bnr.ca>wr
- Subject : Re: Where are all the young enthusiasts?
-
- [Complaints about how expensive ham radio is deleted]
- Sure, it is expensive if you go for all new stuff. Try looking at hamfests;
- you can get great bargains there. I have recently picked up an Icom 2AT
- for $20 (needs alittle work, but that just adds to the fun) and a pair of
- Tempo HTs for $60. For HF, you can get a TS520 for about $300-350,
- Heathkits often go for much less. For antennas, use a dipole (an old
- extension cord) or a Hamstick ($16) on HF, or a 1/4 wave groundplane
- (an SO239 and some coat hangers) or a Hotrod for VHF/UHF. For a TNC, get
- one of the Baycom/PMP modems (or build one) or if you have a well-stocked
- junk box, get the TAPR TNC2 bare board for $30 and stuff it yourself.
-
- While it is nice to use the IC781 with stacked monobanders over at W1AF,
- that is definite overkill for my home station. WIth a little inginuity,
- you can set up a nice and functional station for a lot less than you think.
-
- 73, and good luck.
- /mike
-
- --
- \|/ Michael L. Ardai N1IST Teradyne ATG Boston
- --- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- /|\ ardai@maven.dnet.teradyne.com n1ist@netcom.com
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 10:57:52 -0700
- From: orca.es.com!cnn.sim.es.com!msanders.sim.es.com!user@uunet.uu.net
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- References <9312172309.A8344wk@hofbbs.com>, <msanders-211293095131@msanders.sim.es.com>, <2f7b6l$7nr2@ep130.wg2.waii.com>.s
- Subject : Re: Ham ticket
-
- > |> > DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW IF FCC HAS STOPPED PROCESSING LICENSES. I AM
- > |> STILL
- > |> > WAITING SINCE 11/9/93 FOR MY TICKET TO ARRIVE AND I AM GROWING IMPATIENT.
- > |> > ALL REPLIES WELCOME!!!
- > |>
- > |> Who knows? I upgraded to General on 20 Oct and have not heard anything (9
- > |> weeks on Wed). My two sons passed their Tech on 15 Sep and got their
- > |> tickets on 3 Nov - 7 weeks.
- > |> Milt
- >
- > Here is a phone number anyone can call and get info on their ticket status, if
- > issued, when received ect. ect.
- >
- > F.C.C. Gettesburg, PA. (717) 337-1212
- > They will ask for your name and where you live.
- >
- > Mike KB5TOJ
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- Thanks Mike: BTW, I just called 12:58 PM Eastern time, 21 Dec, and the
- recording said that their computer was down. Beats all, Huh?
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- Milt
- --
- =========================================================================
-
- ------------------------------
-
- End of Info-Hams Digest V93 #1492
- ******************************
- ******************************
-